Monday, October 23, 2006

America: From Freedom to Fascism (part 1)

Rebuttal / debunked:

I finally watched Aaron Russo's movie "America: From Freedom to Fascism". My understanding is that there are several versions of this movie floating around. The one I watched is labeled the "Authorized director's cut", and contains a "last minute" addition of a Lou Dobbs report on the Security and Prosperity Partnership (discussed infra).

This rebuttal will focus primarily on the tax issues because (a) they are the major portion of the movie and (b) it's the area I'm most interested in. I'll include a good bit on the Federal Reserve issues as well, but most of that has been discussed in prior threads.

The PATRIOT ACT issues are not fully explicated in the movie, but are more asserted as evidence of a generally sinister government. I have my own issues with certain aspects of the PATRIOT ACT, but, as there are no specific issues raised in the movie, I don't think it appropriate to raise them here.

There is also some discussion of the REAL ID Act. This discussion, I think, is valuable. Again, I have issues with this particular act beyond what Russo discusses, but I won't raise those issues here.

Finally, in a full disclosure, some of this analysis is lifted or adapted from things I have written previously, primarily on this site. So it might look familiar.

On to the meat.

Tax Part I: The 16th was never ratified

Russo does not really explain this argument. He makes the unsupported allegation that a cadre of bankers bribed the Secretary of State (rather amusingly named Philander Knox) to falsely certify the ratification, and then moves on. The only support he gives for the failure to ratify is a statement from U.S. District Court Judge James C. Fox in 2003: "If you...examined [the 16th Amendment] carefully, you would find that a sufficient number of states never ratified the Amendment." A bit of googling reveals that this quote is from a hearing (not a court opinion) for a temporary restraining order in the case of Sullivan v. USA. Several websites promised the transcript, but all the links were dead. The closest I could find was a tax protestor website which gave me this somewhat expanded version of the quote: " "I think if you were to go back and try to find and review the ratification of the 16th amendment, which was the Internal Revenue, income tax, I think if you went back and examined that carefully, you would find that a sufficient number of states never ratified that amendment. ... Yet nonetheless, I'm sure no court's going to say that the 16th Amendment permitting income tax is void for any reason". This is more an expression of the futility of the argument than an actual determination that the 16th was never ratified. Additionally, it is (as noted above) not a judicial determination of law. It is a judge making an offhand, non-binding statement during a hearing. It's not a finding of law.

There has been a finding of law regarding the ratification, in the case of U.S. v. Thomas (a 7th Circuit case from 1986, which the Supreme Court declined to review). Unfortunately, I was unable to locate a free online source for the text of this case, however, in looking at this issue for a previous thread, I verified the following quote which can be found a bunch of places online:

...Thirty-eight states ratified the sixteenth amendment, and thirty-seven sent formal instruments of ratification to the Secretary of State. (Minnesota notified the Secretary orally, and additional states ratified later; we consider only those Secretary Knox considered.) Only four instruments repeat the language of the sixteenth amendment exactly as Congress approved it. The others contain errors of diction, capitalization, punctuation, and spelling. The text Congress transmitted to the states was: "The Congress shall have power to lay and collect taxes on incomes, from whatever source derived, without apportionment among the several States, and without regard to any census or enumeration." Many of the instruments neglected to capitalize "States," and some capitalized other words instead. The instrument from Illinois had "remuneration" in place of "enumeration"; the instrument from Missouri substituted "levy" for "lay"; the instrument from Washington had "income" not "incomes"; others made similar blunders.


"Thomas insists that because the states did not approve exactly the same text, the amendment did not go into effect. Secretary Knox considered this argument. The Solicitor of the Department of State drew up a list of the errors in the instruments and--taking into account both the triviality of the deviations and the treatment of earlier amendments that had experienced more substantial problems--advised the Secretary that he was authorized to declare the amendment adopted. The Secretary did so.
"Although Thomas urges us to take the view of several state courts that only agreement on the literal text may make a legal document effective, the Supreme Court follows the "enrolled bill rule." If a legislative document is authenticated in regular form by the appropriate officials, the court treats that document as properly adopted. Field v. Clark, 143 U.S. 649, 36 L.Ed. 294, 12 S.Ct. 495 (1892). The principle is equally applicable to constitutional amendments. See Leser v. Garnett, 258 U.S. 130, 66 L.Ed. 505, 42 S.Ct. 217 (1922), which treats as conclusive the declaration of the Secretary of State that the nineteenth amendment had been adopted. In United States v. Foster, 789 F.2d. 457, 462-463, n.6 (7th Cir. 1986), we relied on Leser, as well as the inconsequential nature of the objections in the face of the 73-year acceptance of the effectiveness of the sixteenth amendment, to reject a claim similar to Thomas's. See also Coleman v. Miller, 307 U.S. 433, 83 L. Ed. 1385, 59 S. Ct. 972 (1939) (questions about ratification of amendments may be nonjusticiable). Secretary Knox declared that enough states had ratified the sixteenth amendment. The Secretary's decision is not transparently defective. We need not decide when, if ever, such a decision may be reviewed in order to know that Secretary Knox's decision is now beyond review."


This passage determines that the Sixteenth was validly adopted, among other reasons, because the Supreme Court follows the "enrolled bill" doctrine. This concept has been explicated several times by the Supreme Court.

Leser v. Garnet ruled, among other issues, that "As the Legislatures ... had power to adopt the resolutions of ratification, official notice to the Secretary, duly authenticated, that they had done so, was conclusive upon him, and, being certified to by his proclamation, is conclusive upon the courts." Leser v. Garnet also stated that the rule in Field v. Clark was applicable. Field v. Clark was not a case surrounding an Amendment. Instead, it dealt with a statute which, subsequent to its passage, was challenged as being different from that passed by Congress. The Court ruled that "...the authentication of an enrolled bill, by the official signatures of the presiding officers of the two houses and of the president, as an act which has passed congress, and been approved by the president..." cannot be undone by evidence that the bill should have been different. Applied to the amendment process, the ruling in Leser states that once a legislature has notified the Secretary of State that ratification has occurred, it can't be rescinded or challenged.

Even more damning, Coleman v. Miller involved a challenge by a state as to its own ratification of an Amendment. Coleman v. Miller reached a similar result, when the Court refused to set aside the ratification (although the Amendment itself never passed). It also noted that, insofar as the Constitution deferred to Congress the power to "run the show" in the Amendment process, the Court would be very reluctant to set aside any Congressional action. Although the Court specifically declined to rule on the "justicability" of the issue (Article III courts generally cannot decide "political questions" such as the manner in which a statute was negotiated or arrived at), that clearly underlies their hesitancy.

The rule, in short, is that once a bill is certified enrolled, there is no means by which anyone can then countermand that certification. The states, as the entities ratifying (and, specifically, not individuals) need to make clear an objection at the time the Secretary of State releases the list. Otherwise, game over.

Note that Mr. Russo never really goes into the argument surrounding the ratification, however, it seems likely that he is using the argument found in the book "The Law that Never Was", that states that several states made minor revisions to the Amendment before ratifying it, and that some did not ratify it by a formal act of legislature. These issues, too, have been addressed.

The Constitution (deliberately) does not set forth the manner in which states are to ratify an amendment. All it says is that Amendments are valid "...when ratified by the legislatures of three fourths of the several states, or by conventions in three fourths thereof, as the one or the other mode of ratification may be proposed by the Congress." For most proposed amendments, including he one at issue here, Congress generally proposes the former.

That doesn't get us there, though. The legislature has the power, but it's not clear (from the Constitution) how they exercise the power. The Constitution itself was subject to a very particular process, specifically at the demand of the founders, as to the manner in which it was ratified. However, that specific process was not extended to future amendments.

There have been a couple cases which describe the manner in which an amendment needs to be ratified. Hawke v. Smith dealt with an attempt by an Ohio resident to enjoin the legislature of Ohio from endorsing an amendment to the constitution because an amendment to the Ohio constitution would have required a state wide referendum on that endorsement. The court rejected the suit, and in so doing, clarified certain provisions surrounding state ratification of amendments:

"The argument to support the power of the state to require the approval by the people of the state of the ratification of amendments to the federal Constitution through the tedium of a referendum rests upon the proposition that the federal Constitution requires ratification by the legislative action of the states through the medium provided at the time of the proposed approval of an amendment. This argument is fallacious in this-ratification by a state of a constitutional amendment is not an act of legislation within the proper sense of the word. It is but the expression of the assent of the state to a proposed amendment"

...


Article 1, section 4, plainly gives authority to the state to legislate within the limitations therein named. Such legislative action is entirely different from the requirement of the Constitution as to the expression of assent or dissent to a proposed amendment to the Constitution. In such expression no legislative action is authorized or required.


(Emphasis added)

So, there is no requirement that a formal resolution be passed by the legislature. All that is required is that the legislature assent to the passage of an Amendment. Note also that the Supreme Court decided this as a matter of Federal, specifically Constitutional law. The only entity that can dictate the manner in which assent is given is Congress, and then only between the two manners provided in the Constitution. I believe there was some discussion of an Amendment which would, itself, provide that Amendments could be ratified by popular national vote, but it was determined that that would destroy the independence of states.

Tax Part II: Not just invalid, but ineffective

After a brief segue in which Mr. Russo gives us a small taste of things to come (hint: evil bankers!), he goes on to say that, not only was the 16th Amendment never adopted, but the law that was enacted due to the Amendment is ineffective to do what the government wants it to do. Logical query at this point: If the 16 th Amendment was instituted by bribery, why would the evildoers waste that bribe by then causing an ineffective law to be passed?

I had anticipated the celebrated "861" argument which has landed Wesley Snipes on the wanted list. Generally, the "there is no law..." argument leads to that statement, and, in fact, many of the people quoted in the movie have gone on record as supporting the 861 argument. However Mr. Russo surprised me by never making that argument. Instead, he (and his interviewees) reference several Supreme Court decisions (because, as I was gratified to see, they agree that the Supreme Court is always correct with regard to the Constitution). These are discussed momentarily.

First, there is a significant amount of discussion regarding the IRS's refusal to show the tax protestors "the law" which requires them to pay tax. Also referenced is at least one ad that offered a reward for anyone who could locate "the law". This is a common tax protestor tactic (and nearly always leads directly into the 861 argument).

There is a supposedly damning press conference in which IRS Commissioner Joe Banister appears to avoid a question as to what the law is, however, the clip is very clearly edited, as the question is asked of a completely different person.

"The law" is, in fact 26 U.S.C. Section 1. This law has been put before the tax protestors interviewed in the movie, who then reject it as non-responsive due to the 861 argument, or other reasons (which appear to be what this movie is banking on). Neither argument is correct....26 U.S.C. Section 1 does just what it purports to do: Imposes a tax on individuals.

The actual argument appears to begin with a mention of Stanton v. Baltic Mining Co., a 1916 Supreme Court case. Stanton depends largely upon the ruling in Brushaber v.Union Pacific RR, also a 1916 Supreme Court case, and which is mentioned several times in the movie.

Brushaber is famous among people who took tax classes in law school (like me) for being incredibly difficult to follow. It held, briefly, that there are two types of tax: Direct and indirect. Direct taxes are subject to the requirement of "apportionment", that is, being distributed equally among the states according to their census. Indirect taxes are not. Prior to the 16 th Amendment, the "income" tax that existed at that point was ruled to be a direct tax, and subject to apportionment. Brushaber held that the 16th removed that requirement.

This is what causes the "no new powers of taxation" discussion. Congress could (and did) tax incomes prior to the 16th Amendment. The manner in which that tax could Constitutionally be imposed was changed by the 16 th, however.



"It is clear on the face of [the 16th] that it does not purport to confer power to levy income taxes in a generic sense,-an authority already possessed and never questioned, [240 U.S. 1, 18] -or to limit and distinguish between one kind of income taxes and another, but that the whole purpose of the Amendment was to relieve all income taxes when imposed from apportionment from a consideration of the source whence the income was derived"

Note that this is precisely the opposite of what the guy with the welding goggles at the beginning of the movie says. The income tax, although arguably (and I say arguably because the pre-16th ruling that said it was covered a much earlier version of the income tax) a direct tax, is not subject to the requirement of apportionment.

Back to Stanton. Stanton dealt with a similar issue, with another corporation averring that the income tax was inappropriately applied. Stanton further expounded on the rule in Brushaber: "the 16th Amendment conferred no new power of taxation, but simply prohibited the previous complete and plenary power of income taxation possessed by Congress from the beginning from being taken out of the category of indirect taxation to which it inherently belonged, and being placed [240 U.S. 103, 113] in the category of direct taxation subject to apportionment by a consideration of the sources from which the income was derived,-that is, by testing the tax not by what it was, a tax on income, but by a mistaken theory deduced from the origin or source of the income taxed. "

In other words, an income tax is now a particular type of non-apportionment tax. Prior to the 16th, a court could view the source of the income being taxed to determine if apportionment was required. After the 16 th, the source was immaterial ("incomes from whatever source derived"), and no apportionment is necessary.

Out of order, but the movie also mentions in passingStratton's Independence v. Howbert, which is cited by the next couple cases. However, Stratton's Independence dealt with a situation that pre-dated the 16th. It contains some discussion of the difference between capital and income (which is brought up in the next couple cases), but it's ruling is irrelevant, as the Constitution changed after the rule would be applicable.

The movie moves on to Eisner v. Macomber, which it asserts defines "income" in some unspecified, but restrictive manner. I note, amusingly, that contrary to the recent statements decrying the liberalization and globalization of the Court, this 1919 case includes several citations to foreign law. That's not relevant to this discussion, though. Macomber actually deals with the question of whether a stock dividend could be considered a "gain" for purposes of income (the court says it can't, because no income is distributed to him...he has only a share of interest in possible future income...the stock dividend dilutes his previously held stock). To impose a tax on ownership of the corporation would be a direct tax subject to apportionment. The case does, however, go a long way towards defining "income" for purposes of the 16 th. "Income may be defined as the gain derived from capital, from labor, or from both combined,' provided it be understood to include profit gained through a sale or conversion of capital assets.

From this case, the movie moves backwards to Doyle v. Mitchell which, somehow, Russo asserts, limits that broad definition to corporate activity. I am not sure how a 1918 case could limit one from 1919, but let's see what the case says. Doyle, yet again, defines income as "the gain derived from capital, from labor, or from both combined". It primarily turns on the distinction between capital and gain on capital (the latter is income, the former is not) but I simply do not see how it can be read to limit such gain to corporate activity. It certainly addressed the income of a corporation, but it does nothing to limit the application of income tax to corporations. The only argument I can imagine Russo making is to view each individual as analogous to a corporation, and their "earnings" as personal capital, and not a gain. This is simply not supported by the case.

I am truly not sure what Russo's argument is. None of the cases he asserts support his conclusion that there is no tax on his income. In fact, the cases hold precisely the opposite. Any gain from labor is income, and taxable without apportionment. I see no issue, and kind of see why the attorney from Morgan Lewis got frustrated with him (although, knowing that firm, Russo was probably paying upwards of $700/hr to talk with him).


Tax Part III: Miscellania

Russo rounds out his tax discussion with a few chestnuts about the power of the IRS: to wit, the "voluntary" nature of the Tax Code. This is a misunderstanding of the holding in Flora v.U.S. Flora holds, in part, "Our system of taxation is based upon voluntary assessment and payment, not upon distraint". This is a reference to the fact that taxpayers calculate their own tax and send it in rather than having the government assess it and come after them. Distraint is the power of a creditor to seize stuff from a debtor in payment of the debt. Rather than just sieze taxes, the IRS depends upon voluntary submission of taxes.

Another old favorite concludes this, the tax portion of our show: Requiring to file a 1040 violates your Fifth Amendment right against non-incrimination. This is just flat-out silly. The relevant portion of the Fifth is: " nor shall be compelled in any criminal case to be a witness against himself" Regardless of what charges could be brought based on Mr. Russo's return, the return itself is not a criminal case. There is no Fifth Amendment implication here.

91 Comments:

At 9:58 PM, Blogger phlezk said...

thanks for this post. i was looking for the other side of the argument, you've done a good job here.

 
At 7:24 AM, Blogger Steve72 said...

*Blushes*


Thank you.

 
At 10:33 AM, Blogger cfrankb said...

This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.

 
At 10:35 AM, Blogger cfrankb said...

Here's an interesting
Paperwork Reduction Act (PRA) defense.

 
At 6:20 AM, Blogger Steve72 said...

Well, that's interesting, but it does not tell the whole story. I obliquely addressed this in the post above, but it's worth expounding on.

The action discussed in that link was for criminal penalties (which requires a certain showing of "mes rea", to wit: that the individual intended to violate the law). here, the DOJ did not believe that it could show that mens rea, because the individual could show a legitimate misunderstanding of the law.

he still owed, and needs to pay, the taxes.

the 1040 has been assigned a valid OMB control number, which is displayed in the instructions section (under the heading "Paperwork Reduction Act"), and is listed on the whitehouse's website: here. Here is the actual filing performed by the IRS for the 2006 form.

 
At 9:05 AM, Blogger cfrankb said...

But I wonder if the PRA specifically requires that the document itself (1040 form in this case) displays a valid OMB control # as opposed to a separate instruction booklet, website, etc.

 
At 9:47 AM, Blogger Steve72 said...

The 1040 does display that number.

Here

It's in the very upper right hand corner.

 
At 9:50 AM, Blogger Steve72 said...

...and even if it did not, the PRA states that the "information collection" needs to display the number, not the form. the instructions are an integral part of the collection, and are nearly always distributed together.

It's worth noting that (after researching that case a bit), the government only received notice of this argument a few days before trial, and had a motion to delay trial denied immediately prior to settling with the defendant.

It's also worth noting that, since this case, the attorney involved has had his license suspended.

 
At 11:00 AM, Blogger cfrankb said...

Ah; thanks. Now I have left to research/critique the essay parts 3 and 4
by G. Edward Griffin

 
At 11:23 PM, Anonymous Joe said...

26 USC section 1, It is true that this imposes a tax on individuals.
However a research of history shows that the language change has watered down and so mislead everyone to its original meaning. The statute never repealed means simply original intent, and if you research it, you will find that it does follow the 861 argument in exact form. Following jurisdiction of congress, and where and whom the tax on individuals can be applied. The statutes at large are also a detailed explanation of who the tax applied to in 1862. It has not changed before or after the 16th Amendmant. Now just to let You all know the real dirt the Government is protecting is the the simple fact that we are all now to be considered federal personel, and our link is Social Security. To understand how it works you must understand Your Voluntary contractual agreement with government and the definition of Federal Personel. Without Social security it does not work in the private sector, Read US vs USA, an excellant book that reals all the case law to date on your execptance of a privlege that leads you to a tax on your labor as federal personel, And then show me The law that requires me enroll in this program The act is voluntary and the SS commision freely admits to it, and the courts back that up!!!

 
At 4:59 AM, Blogger Steve72 said...

The statute never repealed means simply original intent, and if you research it, you will find that it does follow the 861 argument in exact form


I presume this is an appeal to the tax in effect prior to the adoption of the current Code. It is a fundamental maxim of statutory construction that later acts trump earlier ones. Prior law which is inconsistent with, and on an equal level of authority with, a new law is implicitly revoked. Whether or not a priro law "followed the 861 argument" is immaterial, because that law is gone.

Now just to let You all know the real dirt the Government is protecting is the the simple fact that we are all now to be considered federal personel, and our link is Social Security. To understand how it works you must understand Your Voluntary contractual agreement with government and the definition of Federal Personel. Without Social security it does not work in the private sector, Read US vs USA, an excellant book that reals all the case law to date on your execptance of a privlege that leads you to a tax on your labor as federal personel, And then show me The law that requires me enroll in this program The act is voluntary and the SS commision freely admits to it, and the courts back that up!!!


No.

You are not a federal employee. Social Security does not make you so...there just isn't any authority for this. The "voluntariness" concept discussed by som courts has nothing to do with participation in the system. It has to do with the fact that our tax system is based on voluntary compliance (i.e., filing and sending in tax returns, rather than having a Hagar-the-Horrible-esque tax collector show up at your door.

 
At 9:51 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

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At 12:16 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Steve: Thank you for stopping by and offering a rebuttal and additional information. I have read through your post, and will note to others to investigate.

Yes, I also was alerted by the edit clips in the movie. Not being savvy on the intricasies of tax law, my decision became simply to report on the information provided, with the hope that my readers will bring to light the strengths and weaknesses of the arguments given.

Thank you for your insights.

 
At 12:19 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.

 
At 12:19 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.

 
At 12:22 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.

 
At 12:27 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Sorry...things went screwy...I couldn't tell. You'll have to delete from your end. I don't seem to be able to.

 
At 11:56 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.

 
At 6:51 AM, Blogger Steve72 said...

Thank you for your kind words, Fool (that just doesn't sound right...)

To both of my readers, The Fool has an excellent blog on a wide variety of topics here

(hopefully my HTML is improving.)

 
At 8:22 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

March 27, 2004 THE BIG INCOME TAX SHOW!

Dave Champion discusses the moral imperative behind proper tax administration.
Which "tax" are we talking about?
16th Amendment: What did it really do?
Federal courts say that the Tax Code “relates to taxpayers, and not to nontaxpayers”.
Dave breaks down Subtitle ‘A’ (entitled “Income Tax”) of the Internal Revenue Code so you can understand it.
Who is “made liable” for Subtitle ‘A’ tax?
What do the regulations say about who is required to the use of Taxpayer Identification Numbers?
Form W-9: What force and effect, if any; and for whom?
Dave points out how certain parts of the Code have to be “reverse engineered” to understand what is truly intended.
What is the proper role of Information Reporting, and upon whom?
These questions answered, and more!

http://www.americanradioshow.us/archive2004.html

 
At 10:36 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Steve: You've provided an interesting rebuttal to Aaron's film. Unfortunatly, he is not the only one bringing this to the American people's attention. If you have not watched the presentation, The 861 Evidence, I incourgage you to do so. You can find it here: http://web6.streamhoster.com/vinyasi/stream/861_Evidence/broadband/index.html.
After you have watched it, I would ask if you think everyone that takes this stand is just grossly mistaken in the way they read the law. This includes many attorneys, CPAs and former IRS agents. Do you really propose to discredit all of them? What say you?

 
At 6:06 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

United States v. Thomas, 788 F.2d 1250 (7th Cir. 04/17/1986)

[18] Although Thomas urges us to take the view of several state courts that only agreement on the literal text may make a legal document effective, the Supreme Court follows the "enrolled bill rule." If a legislative document is authenticated in regular form by the appropriate officials, the court treats that document as properly adopted. Field v. Clark, 143 U.S. 649, 36 L. Ed. 294, 12 S. Ct. 495 (1892). The principle is equally applicable to constitutional amendments. See Leser v. Garnett, 258 U.S. 130, 66 L. Ed. 505, 42 S. Ct. 217 (1922), which treats as conclusive the declaration of the Secretary of State that the nineteenth amendment had been adopted. In United States v. Foster, 789 F.2d. 457 (7th Cir. 1986), slip op. 10-12 & n.6, we relied on Leser, as well as the inconsequential nature of the objections in the face of the 73-year acceptance of the effectiveness of the sixteenth amendment, to reject a claim similar to Thomas's. See also Coleman v. Miller, 307 U.S. 433, 83 L. Ed. 1385, 59 S. Ct. 972 (1939) (questions about ratification of amendments may be nonjusticiable). Secretary Knox declared that enough states had ratified the sixteenth amendment. The Secretary's decision is not transparently defective. We need not decide when, if ever, such a decision may be reviewed in order to know that Secretary Knox's decision is now beyond review.

 
At 6:07 AM, Blogger Steve72 said...

The 861 argument is separate from the ones discussed above. I'll make a separate (probably lengthy) post about it shortly.

In the meantime, I'll rebut the "many attorneys, CPAs and former IRS agents" with a number.

Total tax savings upheld in a court of law due to the 861 argument (in U.S. Dollars): 0

In other words, yes. Everyone who takes this stand is grossly mistaken in the way the read the law. It was a worthwhile shot the first time it was brought, but the structure and repeated defeats of the argument in court make it frivolous.

 
At 6:10 AM, Blogger Steve72 said...

U.S. v. Thomas (quoted in the comment above my last comment) is discussed in the text of the post.

 
At 3:59 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Your argument is fantastic in the sense that it is obviouse that you think that we are not taxed enough and the Government has a right to my income. When in reality we all pay enough taxes outside of this one tax. For people to believe that we all owe society something by doing our civil Socialist duty and give everybody else our money we work way to hard for, is obsurde. Or perhaps, steve72, you are an attorney and prey on the misfortune of others.

 
At 6:11 PM, Blogger Steve72 said...

I don't understand why this is so difficult to get.

My argument has nothing to do with what I think should happen, or what an ideal government would be. It has to do with the faulty legal arguments raised in this movie (and by others who make similar arguments.)

Whether I think we are taxed "enough" has no bearing on whether the legl arguments raised by tax protestors are accurate.

 
At 8:44 AM, Blogger Timothy said...

You don't understand the difference between gain and equal trade.

"Income may be defined as the gain derived from capital, from labor, or from both combined,' provided it be understood to include profit gained through a sale or conversion of capital assets."

Gain from labor is not the same thing as a company/person trading gold for a person's labor.

A person does not gain anything when they trade their labor for real money. It's an equal trade.

It's not that hard to understand.

 
At 10:06 AM, Blogger Steve72 said...

That's simply not accurate. there is no legal support for that theory, and it has been explicitly rejected by courts multiple times (U.S. v. Becker, 7th Cir, 1992, U.S. v. Connor, 3rd Cir 1990, and Loansdale v. Commissioner, 5th Cir 1981 for example).

"Basis" is the concept used to define an individual's interest in a commodity. If you trade something, your basis transfers.

You do not have basis in your labor. there, again, is no authority for the argument that you do. "Trading" your labor for value results in income equal to the amount you have traded for.

 
At 2:04 PM, Blogger Timothy said...

Aside from the fact that I have no respect for the corrupt UCC lower courts, and barely any for the Supreme Court (after recent rulings e.g. eminent domain, Bush coup, and a few other non-rulings),

and aside from the fact that my "interest" in my labor is complete and plenary,

My legal authority comes from common sense, natural law, and my creator. The Constitution protects my rights and was created to support Common law:

"• Article 1; Section 2, Clause 3:
"Representations and direct taxes shall be apportioned among the several states which may be included within this union, according to their respective numbers..."

• Article 1; Section 9, Clause 4:
"No Capitation, or other direct tax, shall be laid, unless in proportion to the census or enumeration herein before directed to be taken."

• Apportionment: means to equally divide among the population (census). (like: $1 per person for every person)

• Capitation Tax: "a tax imposed upon a person at a fixed rate, regardless of the taxpayer's ability to pay, occupation, assets, or income." (Law Dictionary) (The "Graduated income tax" is capitation and is NOT Constitutional!)"
--Quoted from Fogy411

No one needs to be told by an attorney, nor does any legal precedent need to be set in order to understand the simple concept that one does not gain anything when trading their labor for something.

It is common sense that your labor is your personal property. No one can take parts of that personal property away prior to, during, or after any exchanges of that property.

No one, including government, has any right to steal property from anyone.

The only reason we privilege the Federal government with direct single-instance taxation is because the tax is distributed equally among the population. The tax is intended to be specific for a purpose out of the ordinary and for the common well-being. By using this method each person is considered an equal and thus tolerated.

I do not expect understanding from an attorney who has his mind warped by the BAR who uses merchant law (UCC) in the place of common law.

Of course, you will not get any rights for which you are not willing to die. :)

 
At 6:47 AM, Blogger Steve72 said...

Aside from the fact that I have no respect for the corrupt UCC lower courts, and barely any for the Supreme Court (after recent rulings e.g. eminent domain, Bush coup, and a few other non-rulings),

..Then you have no respect for the Constitution (in particular, Article III). if you are going to pin your arguments to the Constitution, you can't just pick and choose which provisions you want to govern. The Constitution establishes a system, and the courts are a fundamental part of that system.

If you want to argue that the system is faulty, that's fine, but you are then making extra-Constitutional arguments, and lose the "legal" status of any argument.

and aside from the fact that my "interest" in my labor is complete and plenary,

There is simply no authority that this is the case for taxaion purposes. It is nothing but a bald, unsubstantiated assertion, which is belied by all authority on the issue.

My legal authority comes from common sense, natural law, and my creator. The Constitution protects my rights and was created to support Common law:

(Cites omitted)

• Apportionment: means to equally divide among the population (census). (like: $1 per person for every person)

No. Apportionment means spread evenly among the states according to their population. But that's immaterial, since the Sixteenth states explicitly that an income tax may be asserted "without regard to apportionment".

• Capitation Tax: "a tax imposed upon a person at a fixed rate, regardless of the taxpayer's ability to pay, occupation, assets, OR INCOME" (Law Dictionary) (The "Graduated income tax" is capitation and is NOT Constitutional!)"
--Quoted from Fogy411


I've bolded and capitalized some important issues in that quote from fogy. the argument is nonsensical.

No one needs to be told by an attorney, nor does any legal precedent need to be set in order to understand the simple concept that one does not gain anything when trading their labor for something.

For purposes of taxation (which is a legal matter, and therefore dictated by laws), you are simply wrong. There's no other way to put it. there is no justification for this argument other than that you want it to be so.

Again, if you want to say that is how it should be, you've got an argument. But the argument being made in this move (and by tax protestors in general) is that this is how it is as a matter of law. that argument is simply, and demonstrably, wrong.

It is common sense that your labor is your personal property. No one can take parts of that personal property away prior to, during, or after any exchanges of that property.

Even were that true (and it's not), "common sense" does not necessarily enter into a legal argument.

Sounds funny, but it's true.

No one, including government, has any right to steal property from anyone.

Stealing is illegal. the income tax is legal.

(Random attorney-insults omitted)

 
At 10:13 AM, Blogger Timothy said...

Timothy-No one needs to be told by an attorney, nor does any legal precedent need to be set in order to understand the simple concept that one does not gain anything when trading their labor for something.

Steve72-For purposes of taxation (which is a legal matter, and therefore dictated by laws), you are simply wrong.


This is the common argument proliferated by BAR attorneys, and it is a complete lie. Common law was never intended to be so complicated for you not to be able to represent yourself. BAR attorneys would have you believe that they should be required in every legal proceeding. Quite the racket they have going. Currently BAR attorneys are nearly required (except for the rare individual with enough time/interest to become expert in law) because Common Law is no longer truly practiced in the courts. It has been usurped by merchant law (UCC).

Timothy-Aside from the fact that I have no respect for the corrupt UCC lower courts, and barely any for the Supreme Court (after recent rulings e.g. eminent domain, Bush coup, and a few other non-rulings),

Steve72-..Then you have no respect for the Constitution (in particular, Article III). if you are going to pin your arguments to the Constitution, you can't just pick and choose which provisions you want to govern. The Constitution establishes a system, and the courts are a fundamental part of that system.


The founders of the Constitution were deathly afraid of merchant law being used in place of Common law. The courts are invalid, illegal, and unconstitutional where the UCC has usurped Common law. To argue that these impostor courts are legal is ridiculous.

Steve72-If you want to argue that the system is faulty, that's fine, but you are then making extra-Constitutional arguments, and lose the "legal" status of any argument.

Each person's labor is their own private property.

Constitutional. Common sense.

Our courts were supposed to be primarily Common Law courts and not merchant courts. Of course, as I said before, this isn't the case.

Constitutional.

Again, the founders of the Constitution were deathly afraid of merchant law being used in place of Common law. The courts are invalid, illegal, and unconstitutional where the UCC has usurped Common law. To argue that these impostor courts are Constitutional and thus claim that my arguments are extra-Constitutional is ridiculous.

Timothy-It is common sense that your labor is your personal property. No one can take parts of that personal property away prior to, during, or after any exchanges of that property.

Steve72-Even were that true (and it's not), "common sense" does not necessarily enter into a legal argument.

Sounds funny, but it's true.


It's not at all funny that you're actually saying one's labor is not their private property. What a great slave you will make in this neo-feudal society they have planned for you.

It's not at all funny that you're actually saying that common sense does not enter into a legal argument. How amazingly twisted you merchant-law BAR attorneys have become.

You believe that the government has a right to my labor, and I do not. This is the true reason for our disagreement and it is moot to argue any further. If one of us changes opinion, there will be reason to proceed. I don't anticipate that I will be changing my opinion anytime soon since I will die to defend my rights, and my labor being my private property is one of them.

In all of your smoke and mirror arguments for the income tax on wages, the real premise of them is that you do not believe ones labor is their private property. This is the type of thing you see in Communist China or Nazi Germany. I recommend you start with that premise when you argue the point and it will save you a lot of time. People will see right through you, as I do.

Common Law legal arguments are based on common sense and natural law revealed. Nothing else.

It's anything but funny that you push the merchant law garbage in place of Common law arguments as if it is truth. Get a conscience.

--
The revolution will not be televised.

 
At 10:55 AM, Blogger Steve72 said...

This is the common argument proliferated by BAR attorneys, and it is a complete lie. Common law was never intended to be so complicated for you not to be able to represent yourself. BAR attorneys would have you believe that they should be required in every legal proceeding. Quite the racket they have going. Currently BAR attorneys are nearly required (except for the rare individual with enough time/interest to become expert in law) because Common Law is no longer truly practiced in the courts. It has been usurped by merchant law (UCC).


I have no idea where you are coming up with these concepts. Common law is judicially "created" law, in that it refers to the practice of reporting decisions and utilizing them as precedent. Such a system naturally becomes more complicated as time goes on, as decisions are revisited, altered and clarified.

Technically, there is no Federal common law. Instead, the law (as intended by theFounders) is a conglomeration of legislative acts and their subsequent interpreatations by the courts.

The UCC (uniform Commercial Code) is a "model" law which is not binding law...well, anywhere. It is not legislation in any jurisdiction. instead, it is provided as a model from which each individual state may pick and choose concepts to adopt as law in that particular state., there is no such thing as a court "practicing" UCC law.

Incidentally, I do not think that a lawyer is necessary in all circumstances.

The founders of the Constitution were deathly afraid of merchant law being used in place of Common law. The courts are invalid, illegal, and unconstitutional where the UCC has usurped Common law. To argue that these impostor courts are legal is ridiculous.

You are incorrect again, and in so many ways that I do not even know how to address this point.

The Founders established a system of courts (or, more accurately, a system to provide a system of courts). The jurisdiction of such courts is explicitly (in the Constitution) extended to laws passed by Congress, taking it beyond pure "common law".

Each person's labor is their own private property.

Constitutional. Common sense.


Show me where it says that in the Constitution. Anywhere.

Our courts were supposed to be primarily Common Law courts and not merchant courts. Of course, as I said before, this isn't the case.

You're just making stuff up now, aren't you?

(Restatements of the identical unsupported assertions and non-substantive discussion of me omitted)

You believe that the government has a right to my labor, and I do not. This is the true reason for our disagreement and it is moot to argue any further. If one of us changes opinion, there will be reason to proceed. I don't anticipate that I will be changing my opinion anytime soon since I will die to defend my rights, and my labor being my private property is one of them.

I do not believe the government has a "right" to any person's labor. i believe that, under the Constitutioonal system established in this country, we have granted certain powers to the Federal government. One such power, discussed in Article I and in the Sixteenth amendment, is the power to tax incomes.

In all of your smoke and mirror arguments for the income tax on wages, the real premise of them is that you do not believe ones labor is their private property. This is the type of thing you see in Communist China or Nazi Germany. I recommend you start with that premise when you argue the point and it will save you a lot of time. People will see right through you, as I do.

(a) Godwin's Law.

(b) My argument is not dependant upon any "belief" regarding the status of your labor. my argument is based solely upon the legality of certain powers exercised by the government. One such power is the power to tax income. Income from labor has been repeatedly and explicitly determined to be a gain, and not a like-kind exchange. Regardless of whether you consider labor to be "property", income recieved as a result will be taxable.

Common Law legal arguments are based on common sense and natural law revealed. Nothing else.

Actually, common law is the gathering of judicial determinations and rulings as precedent applied to current situations. I suppose you could say that such judicial determninations are "common sense", although that argument is strongly at odds with your previous statement that you do not respect judges.

Again, the fact that the founders specifically and explicitly granted judicial authority over the interpretation of Congressional acts gives the lie to your (again unsupported) assertion that this wasintended to be a pure common law state.

It's anything but funny that you push the merchant law garbage in place of Common law arguments as if it is truth. Get a conscience.

You are throwing around terms that you do not understand.

 
At 11:28 AM, Blogger Harry Stottle said...

Steve, Greetings

I've just posted this comment on my own blog as a follow up to your comment in January. To save you the trouble of popping across the fence, I thought I'd repost it here.
*************

Following Steve72's impressive rebuttal of the Anti-IRS protest, I posted reference to his arguments on a couple of forums supporting the protest and asking if they were aware of that position and, if so, what was their counter-argument. I received no convincing replies and was about to conclude, glumly, that Steve must be right and the protest was thus doomed to failure. Then we received an email from "We The People Foundation" which contained this:

Meet Thomas K. Cryer, Attorney at Law.

On February 20, 2007, the news about Thomas K. Cryer broke on the Internet with the publication of an article titled, "Attorney Challenges Income Tax Law, Constitutional History in the Making."

As part of WTP's due diligence we studied the documents on file in the United States District Court, Western District of Louisiana in USA v Cryer, CASE #: 5:06-cr-50164-SMH-MLH-ALL, and in Cryer v USA, CASE #: 5:02-mc-00019-DEW. In addition, we interviewed Cryer by telephone and we reviewed Cryer's biographic summary and the information on his website.

Cryer, like IRS Special Agent Joe Banister before him, undertook a two-year study of the income tax system at his own expense. Like Banister, Cryer concluded that consistent with the tax clauses of the Constitution of the United States of America, there is no law that requires individuals to file tax returns and pay a direct un-apportioned tax on their labor, and no law that requires employers to withhold such a tax from the paychecks of their employees.

Cryer stopped filing tax returns, stopped withholding the tax from his employees and has now been indicted for tax evasion.

Cryer's strategy is to have the indictment dismissed on the merits of his constitutional and statutory arguments. He has filed an approximately 100-page motion that can be described in one word - "brilliant."


The Motion is surprising readable and, to a layman like me, extremely convincing. It certainly deals, comprehensively with Steve's arguments. I strongly recommend you read it yourselves.

Meanwhile I'm going to bounce it off Steve and see what he has to say about it.

 
At 12:50 PM, Blogger The Fool said...

This comment has been removed by the author.

 
At 1:22 PM, Blogger The Fool said...

This comment has been removed by the author.

 
At 8:12 AM, Blogger Steve said...

Wow.

It's certainly an impressive (by heft) motion. I'll read it. If it is as thorough as it appears to be, I hope that it receives a ruling on the merits.

I will tell you that, if the motion describes the legal arguments put forth by the We the People Foundation in previous publications, I think it will go nowhere. However, I do look forward to seeing a specific ruling on those arguments.

 
At 6:58 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

re- the idea that participating in the social security system makes one a federal employee (and thus subject to taxation on personal income), I think it's more accurate to say that we are all essentially government property (regardless of whether we choose to participate in such programs as ss), thus our labor (and any fruits that come from it) is also government property...

 
At 7:07 AM, Blogger Steve72 said...

Um...No.

How are we government property?

 
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